2008-12-31 transcript Tammy/Rory

Transcription of Revelations Conversation, Dec. 31, 2008

RORY: I started reading about the Dark Night of the Soul when I was in Divinity School. And I was reading about these various saints, and they were going through their stuff, and John of the Cross was talking about the Dark Night of the Soul, and I was a meditator, and I had unity experiences; I was in gold light all of the time, and angels were pouring through me, and Mother Mary was coming out my hand chakras, and I was just walking around literally in Paradise. So this whole Dark Night thing meant nothing to me.

TAMMY: Mary, huh. I love that. Rory, you’re very cosmic …

RORY: Well, the point was, when I was reading all this stuff I thought, “I’m on the TM path; we don’t have a Dark Night of the Soul; we don’t suffer. And then, before I know it, BOOM! The whole thing crashes.

TAMMY: Do you think that’s a fallacy they’re holding out.

RORY: It is a fallacy, absolutely.

TAMMY: Thank you for saying that.

RORY: Because you are in, at least, my experience…

TAMMY: Dark Nights exist.

RORY: And they’re necessary.

TAMMY: And they’re necessary.

RORY: Because, for me anyway, Unity was still an experience. It was like an experience that came and went. And the Dark Night actually opens up into something that’s permanent, that’s always been there, and only being overlooked all of this time. It’s like – it’s Brahman. The Dark Night is letting go of all attachment to experience, where our fulfillment is “out there.” Even Unity is an “out-there” experience; you know; it’s like, “Oh, out-there is the same as me,” but it’s “I! I! I’m in Unity!” Whereas Brahman is – the I surrenders into something bigger. You know…

TAMMY: Expanded, right?

RORY: Yeah.

TAMMY: And your identity goes along with it. Like a collapse.

RORY: Yes!  Exactly.

TAMMY: You have to collapse.

RORY: Yes! You no longer are identifying with the pinpoint that you were subconsciously identifying with. Even when you’re Witnessing, and in Unity, and all that stuff, there’s still this – unconsciously, you’re still a little pinpoint, thinking, “Oh! Me! Me! I’m in space-time!” And it’s like – You know – The Dark Night shatters that identification. So that, at first all you see is nothing. Just nothingness, everythingness, the paradox, whatever it is, inside, outside, all of that stuff, you know –

TAMMY: Now do you think that people – well, one thing that’s holding a lot of people back, is, they are afraid to surrender to that?

RORY: Absolutely. Absolutely.

TAMMY: Fully, to the Dark night? Because if they would, they would actually probably realize their way…

RORY: They do, eventually.

TAMMY: Because sometimes I think I struggle with this.

RORY: Absolutely.

TAMMY: I Just really need to surrender.

RORY: That’s the whole issue, is surrender. Surrender to the perfection of what IS.

TAMMY: Or if I become a little less distracted, a little less…

RORY: It’s a natural process, really, and the only thing is, resistance equals suffering. So if you’re resisting anything, you’re suffering. [Laughs] And that’s what the Dark Night…

TAMMY: And what you resist, persists. Right?

RORY: Exactly.

TAMMY: And so you just keep…

RORY: Right, you maintain that, until … until you don’t.

TAMMY: And that’s when you’re locked into the cycles of….

RORY: And so the Dark Night is a great “experience.”

TAMMY: A vicious cycle.

RORY: But you don’t see it as great at the time, because you’re losing everything. You know, all the things you thought were important, you know, your reputation, everything “out there,” your relationships, anything that was more valuable to you than the Self. [Makes exploding gesture and sound effect. Laughs.] You realize it’s a dream.

TAMMY: And it’s funny. Isn’t it?

RORY: Yeah. After the fact, it’s hilarious.

TAMMY: It’s like, the Truth is funny — the Truth will make you laugh.

RORY: Eventually, yeah. [Laughter]

TAMMY: Eventually. [Laughter]

RORY: [Waves to passerby]

PASSERBY: Hi, guys, how are you?

RORY: How are you doing? Happy New Year.